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 440 into 57/58 Plymouth

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MoparJoe
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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:28 pm

SA Jase57 wrote:
There was a member here Joe, EVA392 that had a Hemi in his 57. Unfortunatly he put the car into a stobie pole and wrecked the front of it. He said he was gonna rebuild it and not sure if it was finished. Ive got a J440 going into my 59 coupe.
Hey Jase, yeh i seem to recall seeing pics of that car smashed up.
Im interested to see how your 440 project goes keep us posted if you can, thanks guys.
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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:23 am

Joe the only small block I have delt with was my 55 Dodge 270 Baby Hemi and built a 340 for my Race Friend Joe, I have always put big blocks, 440's in all my Mopars. I love to work on them more then the small blocks, especially they have no Water running through the intake manifold and you can pull it in about 10 minutes. Big Block mopars are a very simple engine to build and work on. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:33 pm

Hey MoparJoe,

as the guys said use big block cups mounts
one issue I had, as my Savoy was a 6 from factory going on the door plate number, the passenger side mount had been cut off and moved for the prior 318 Poly refit.
before I got the car in the US a long time ago. it may have been a dealer thing as the motor was a 1959 poly 318.
once I had the big block and new mounts , this relocated engine mount was a bit out of wack. so I had to cut it off, tidy up and reweld properly.
so if you car is an original v8 you should be right. ALso I had to notch the drivers side chasis engine mount for the oil pump.
I can take a photo. My car was pretty messed about prior to me buying the car so I can't tell you if this is normal practise to notch for the pump.

if you get a motor home engine like I did you need a different sump and pickup.

The throttle linkage bracket on the firewall I had to modify as the back of the head foulded on it. I just cut and shut it.
so that stuffs up the kickdown rod linkage so I used a lokar cable one.

A 1970 Dodge radiator worked good for me as I can use stock raditator hoses. I got a PWR aluminium one.

The radiator support panel needs to be modified a bit, easy to do.

The Transmission cross member bolted straight up for me using stock mounts. ( 727 )

The transmission gear change is pain if you want push button. I got a conversion kit from imperial services - took forever but does work.

The park brake you need to modify and setup for the back wheels not rear of trans.

I'm not saying this is all gospel, this is just what I came across when I did the change from a 301/318 poly to 440 .
it seems like a lot of hassle and a big list but not when you take your time and work them thru its actually not to bad.

keep up the good work mate.

knighty




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58plym
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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:44 pm

Knightly I traded you a flag for your Christmas tree Smile

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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:54 pm

Thanks Bob Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:47 pm

Hey Knighty thanks for the info, from what i can understand, if the car is factory V8, theres no need to modify the frame mounts at all, just the appropriate cups are needed for the engine mounts. Also, i have read that the trans crossmember will need to be modified to suit the 727, but this shouldnt be a problem. One thing i may have a some difficulty doing is the handbrake set up, i haven't seen any threads on this anywhere......but all these things are a long way off anyway, im still in the early stages.
Thanks mate.
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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:46 pm

With the trans cross member I heard the same thing but it bolts straight up?
I 'm lucky enough to have a hoist at home and I can take some photos.

With the park brake which I left till last and I was worried about it,
I went to rare spares and bought a XA hand brake cable. cut the end off and fitted the original plymouth fitting on the end
so thats the dash end sorted. At the gearbox end, I bolts a L bracket for the bacle to fit onto.
went to a ford wrecker and bought the hand brake mechanism - the ""L" bracket that pivets and a the spraing return
I will take photos of all this but it worked out really good so dont worry to much. I have just finished all mine so happy to share it all.

just need a few more little things then i'm done...... I hope Shocked

knighty

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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:52 pm

What tranny are you using Knightly ? I am using the 350 motor mounts and a newer 727 Like a 72 or so. I had to modify my tranny mount. My car was an origenal 318 engne. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:59 pm

Hey bob,

got a 76 or so 440 with a newer 727 also. I got the Bigblock engine mounts also.
the trans rubber mount I have has 4 holes - 2 each side. There was only ever 2 holes on the cross member from the old powerflite bolt up position
the mount I have bolted straight up to the back holes and the front holes are sort of forward a bit of the cross member
not hanging off but hanging over a tad I guess. Not sure how this had to be modified, never seen how they look
Doesn't mean mine is correct it just bolted up so not sure :silent:

so my trans mount is not centred on the cross member more forward I guess

do you weld a plate to bolt up the extra 2 holes ?


knighty
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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:15 pm

Knightly It has been about 12 years or so since I done this, I can't remember exactly what I did but I will be out in the shop here on a couple of days, I will take a look and take some pictures of it. All I know It didn't mount up right for some reason.

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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:42 am

hey Knighty i am very interested in seeing pics of the handbrake assy whenever you get a chance thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:31 pm

Hey Mopar Joe,

pictures are not great, took them with my phone.

 photo IMG_3181_zpsd8cdfce2.jpg

The part I'm not happy with but you dont see it anyway, is the Square tube part. I couldn't find anything I liked or suited
the lever, spring, etc was from the wreckers. The cables from the Diff were joined like a link so I cut them and crimped / soldered them so suit



 photo IMG_3183_zpsdf35ef0c.jpg

I just put the camera up and took this one as I couldn't see it with my eyes * head wont fit " but you can see the small braket for the cable to mount to



 photo IMG_3184_zps31e5131b.jpg

Bit to far away to see but I used small metal saddles to guide the cable and keep offf the exhaust and making noises


 photo IMG_3188_zps5c9008a4.jpg

the rear end


 photo IMG_3185_zps95c26d5e.jpg

The other end Very Happy


 photo IMG_3186_zps820c6339.jpg

not sure what your thinking for the brakes but you have a few options
I got the adpater kit from Castlemain Rod Shop, you have to supply the rotors ( XF Falcon, Calipers GM, Master Cylinder, etc )
the kit has the bearings, spacers, caplier / stub axle mount. but I think AAJ brakes can do the lot.


doing well bud, keep it up
knighty



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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:10 am

Hey Knighty, thanks a lot for the pics and info, its much appreciated and will serve me well in the future, looking at your handbrake setup i guess it doesnt look like to much a difficult job and it looks pretty good, also i was unaware that Castlemaine Rod shop had a kit, are the GM calipers and master cyl off a HQ or somethimg like that? Or perhaps VT?
Man you car looks great, thanks again mate.
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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:34 am

Your car is fantastic Tim.....im sure Joes car will be equally as immpressive.
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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:36 am

SA Jase57 wrote:
Your car is fantastic Tim.....im sure Joes car will be equally as immpressive.
i dunno man, its my first "major" resto, and if it wasnt for you guys id be flying blind lol!
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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:02 am

Tim your car looks super. Every picture and every piece of information anyone post is a big help to the rest of the club members. Great club and a great group of folks. Thanks for sharing Tim.

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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:17 pm

looks great tim

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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:42 pm

Thanks Guys for the comments.

The issues I had which I would keep in mind for future builds with 440's but have worked around it and would probably do it different.

I got Stainless BLock huggers, while the look nice they are way to hot under the hood.
I since had them ceramic coating which does help with the heat. I haven't really test driven the car yet to know if they huggers are worth it
but I would seriously consider using the stock exhaust manifolds if I had my time again. I'm not sure how much performance you get out of the huggers
cost is heaps less and probably still go good.

The exhaust the guys made for me are 2 1/2" inch all the way. This has caused problems with fitting this diametre with clearance to the transmisison, torison bars, etc.
maybe they should have been 2 1/4 then bigger after the ehaust or once past the trans cross member. I know it doesn't sound much but its very tight.
I have used Exhaust sheild to keep the heat down.

With this type of build if your doing a full resto do it like the hot rodders do it. make the car them pull apart to paint.
I did it a bit cock eyed as I pulled the frame, and rebuilt it with the 440 and new trans with no body work done. thats all good but once you then fit the body and radiator
support the frame had to be modified in little pain in the arse bits after its painted. Now if this car , like mine is going to be driven and go to car shows and have fun not a big deal.
but if your chasing trophies and wait a car perecto then maybe slow down a bit and get it build / assemblied then paint later.

There is nothing really a big issue with the 440 swap just little things along the way, which are a little frustrating, but only because sections are finished and painted.
doesn't matter a rats if your still making the car.

my 2 cents anyway, just make sure what ever you fabrciate from scratch you test fit the peices that bolt up to and swing off, this will help with future issues
down the track.

Good work, great to see the info on this site, unreal guys Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:08 pm

Thanks Tim, Car looks amazing, I will be doing a Frame on Christine next with a 440. I want to have speed fun like Bobby and yourself with those awesome 440's...
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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:12 pm

Yeah I hear you... I have not driven this car over 20mph with the 440 as yet, so I'm really keen to go for a drive bounce

I had a clapped out 318 poly that was ok, with powerflite. now a rebuilt 440 and torqueflite so will be a bit different

bloody excited, and sorry to take over the thread boys talking about my car.

knighty


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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:09 am

Thanks again Tim, your info is very valuable to me, i am concentrating on getting all the rust and body repaired first and prime the entire thing, then i was going to concentrate on the motor / trans / diff etc, once thats all sorted, i was going to complete the paintwork, im hoping it will work out ok i think it will
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PostSubject: Re: 440 into 57/58 Plymouth   Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:13 pm

Knighty,

Could you provide a pic of the transmission mount you are using? Im n the middle of a 383/727 swap with my Christine right now. I was also under the impression that the trans crossmember needs fabrication to work. Curious to see how yours bolted up.

Any pics would be appreciated, sir.

Jason
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