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 Primer on bare metal

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Arnie1964
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PostSubject: Primer on bare metal   Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:37 am

In the next 5-6 weeks once the weather warms up I am going to have my car blasted to strip off the old paint and rust. Once that is done I will need to spray it to preserve the metal until I can get the body work done and prepare it for color. Should I spray it with epoxy primer and if so what brand do you feel is very good for this purpose?

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PostSubject: Re: Primer on bare metal   Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:33 pm

i just had a long talk with someone about this Jim, The guy i talked to said he uses PPG epoxy primer but you only have a 7 day window to work it before it becomes hard as a rock and very hard to sand. Hope this helps a little. Carlos knows quite a bit about priming bare metal

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PostSubject: Re: Primer on bare metal   Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:16 pm

I always thought the metal-etching primer goes on first...no window to working with that stuff that I know of...

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PostSubject: Re: Primer on bare metal   Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:29 pm

Etching primer is good if the car will stay in your garage and there is no moisture around. Dont leave a body outside that only has etch primer as its porous and absorbs moisture. etch primer will still seal the bare steel and slow the rusting process until your body work is done. if you are going to leave the body for a long time after priming then an epoxy is best as it is water proof and will not absorb moisture like etch primer does. PPG make a good product but if your going to do the body work straight away there is no reason to spend alot of money as you will be removing it anyway when you do the body work. when i was an apprentice we used to use a red/brown primer just like the factory that we would brush on. this stuff had heaps of lead in it which is why it was great but its also why they dont make it anymore........bad for your health.

These days when I restore a car I sand down one panel at a time..........do the dents and rust and whatever in one shot then use a two pak high filling primer over the bare steel. once the body is done I board sand the whole body flat with 120 grit to get it super flat. Joe is right the 2 pak goes off like a rock. then I give it all a second coat with the same stuff thinned out a little more. wet rub the whole lot down in 800 grit wet rub then apply top coat/clears.

In your case Jim I would give the whole car about 2 - 3 coats of etch primer as the car will most likely stay in you garage. if you get the body work all done during the summer this will be ok. I wouldnt leave the body in etch over the winter as you will get surface rust under the primer in the cold weather with dampness.
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PostSubject: Re: Primer on bare metal   Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:14 pm

Indeed the self -etch primer is best when accompanied by an epoxy primer what the self etch does is it contains phosphoric acid so any flash rust that may occur in the time since it was taken down to metal,it will kill for a little extra insurance,as Jase said its very thin and should never be put outside or left on its own because it will rust through again.

basically theres many ways to skin a cat the old materials with lead were the best by and far,nowadays you have to pay premium prices for the good stuff.
the best sure- fire and least expensive way is to just take down to the metal with media blast or however you choose,then Imediatly wipe down and Epoxy coat,thats what the factory used.

Theres many different epoxies but generally they all do the same they provide an air tight very non-porous coating that other primers wont,which is ideal to protect against rust.

As Jag said Dupont and others have a 3-7 day window where you can top coat an epoxy primer Without sanding IF its applied smoothly,otherwise when it hardens its very tough to sand,youll have to use 220 grit and lots of it to just sand through that stuff,its very sticky.

blast,epoxy,then bodywork and 2k primers ,then paint is basically how Im doing it,but theres many different ways.

you can blast apply self -etch and then epoxy for even more protection but thats really expensive, as etch primer is $200-$300 per gallon and same for Epoxy.
The 2k's primers are very soft easy to work with and sand,and generally used for filling and final stages of body work.
You can apply those over bare metal too but you have to use lots of it if you do because its very porous, if its applied in thin coats over bare steel it can flash rust through the primer.

Generally speaking theres lots of different materials out there and you can accomplish a succsessful paint job through many different combos of materials /brands its pretty much whats worked best for an individual.
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PostSubject: Re: Primer on bare metal   Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:27 pm

Jim Dupont has a whole arsenal of different ones, 2540s which is a Gray epoxy,I also used a white Dupont epoxy same stuff different number I forgot what it was,they sell them online, generally anything thats in the couple hundred dollar range between the activator and primer will work,even less expensive ones will too....But you cant go wrong with epoxy the name brand can vary.
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PostSubject: Re: Primer on bare metal   Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:02 am

Thanks a lot folks. There is a lot of good information here. I read a lot about this but it gets very confusing as each type primer seems to have it's good points and down falls. Self etch, will allow moisture through and epoxy is hard to sand. I don't mind spending a few extra bucks to get it right up front. I know I am going to have to check the seams and use seam sealer where necessary. I have never done body work before so this is all new to me. I read everything I can on the net and try to watch some videos when I can. I might prime the car and when she gets ready for paint leave it to the pros. I was hoping i would be able to do as much myself on this car as I can. Nothing more than personal satisfaction but I don't want a paint job full of runs or fish eyes. Thanks for your help. I will do a lot more reading. I already understand the 1 pack 2 pack paints.

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PostSubject: Re: Primer on bare metal   Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:28 pm

if you put a little brake fluid in the paint it will "STOP" the runs Hee! Hee!

That is a joke an old bodyman i knew used to say Disclaimer: DONT put brake fluid in your paint lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Primer on bare metal   Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:16 pm

I shoot PPG DP74LF over all bare metal and it is red Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Primer on bare metal   Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:28 pm

Jim........fish eyes and silicon can occur even if your base is top notch. Silicons or oils in the atmosphere or in your air lines or spray guns or not cleaning the surface correctly before spraying is what causes this.

What i recommend you do is go to your local paint supplier and tell the guy at the counter what you are doing and what your intentions are. there are many different types of primers for many different applications. he will go through all his products and tell you which is best for your application which will suit your budget. everyone here has excellent points and will give you good advise from their expierience but if youve never dont this before yourself its easy to be overwhelmed and confused by the many different opinions. you know the old saying too many cooks spoil the broth! there is no right or wrong way but it all depends on your environment/climate, how long you intend to leave the body in primer before body work, whether you will seal the repairs straight away etc................. have a talk to your supplier as there is always new products coming out which is better than the last lot!
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