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 brake retrofit woes

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Bluebird57
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PostSubject: brake retrofit woes   Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:45 am

Hi folks:
Well, I have the steering problem sorted out, now my brake system is acting up. I had some modifications professionally made, and the pedal goes almost to the floor, giving me insufficient brake power to hold the car at idle. It works fine for a while then goes back to this state and won't pump up. This is my setup: AAJ disc brake conversion running 72 el camino calipers (1 piston) and A body discs. Stock drums in back, original plumbing until split at new (just replaced the earlier one) GM MC. MC has adapted 8" booster. Proportioning valve on the system also. SSBC. THey're thinking it might be the prop. valve down at the shop. I'm not so sure. Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks in advance,

bb57
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PostSubject: Re: brake retrofit woes   Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:11 am

Check the free play at the brake pedal, push on the pedal lightly with your hand, until you can feel the resistance of it pushing the master cylinder in. Should be roughly 3/4". If the free play is excessive, many of these cars use an adjustable brake push rod beneath the dash, and you can correct this.

You may also be getting air in the system, or have a slow fluid leak.

---John

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PostSubject: Re: brake retrofit woes   Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:40 pm

one other problem i have encountered on a different kind of car, are the calibers in front interchangeable from left to right? I have seen calipers installed with the bleeder on the bottom instead of the top and no matter how hard you try there will always be air in the system.

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PostSubject: Re: brake retrofit woes   Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:54 am

JAG wrote:
one other problem i have encountered on a different kind of car, are the calibers in front interchangeable from left to right? I have seen calipers installed with the bleeder on the bottom instead of the top and no matter how hard you try there will always be air in the system.
The GM calipers are side specific and to the best of my knowledge installed properly. I have heard of cases like you mention though, thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: brake retrofit woes   Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:05 am

Big M wrote:
Check the free play at the brake pedal, push on the pedal lightly with your hand, until you can feel the resistance of it pushing the master cylinder in. Should be roughly 3/4". If the free play is excessive, many of these cars use an adjustable brake push rod beneath the dash, and you can correct this.

You may also be getting air in the system, or have a slow fluid leak.

---John
All but the bottom 3/4" is free play right now. It's the strangest thing, one day there's plenty of "working" travel in the pedal, then overnight it's down to a tenth of where it was. Even when the pros had it it worked strangely like that. Theyd' bleed it and send her home. Good for one day the right back to square 1. I think you may have something with the "slow leak" theory. I'm thinking the 50 year old lines might be the root of the problem. Also the guy who got the conversion parts for me got the cheap junk. I'm not so sure about the pushrod, which is indeed adjustable, If it's working one day and not the other... there's nothing changing there. Thanks for your thoughts!!!
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PostSubject: Re: brake retrofit woes   Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:52 pm

Is the master cylinder new, rebuilt or used? Also is the master correct for disc/drum brakes?
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PostSubject: Re: brake retrofit woes   Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:46 am

Im having a similar problem. My 58 wasnt equipped with power breaks, so first i added a set of front disc breaks and new master cylinder from AAJ breakes. It didnt make much of a difference so i purchased a used 1958 power break assembly from Big M. Now the problem is the pedal goes right to floor and little breaking power, the original hoses were changed with a softer hose and braided silver dress up covers. The pump does compress completely when braked are applied and the canister does have suction. The car will stop normally if i put the transmission into neutral and give a little acceleration, so we are thinking its a vacuum problem.What can be done to solve this?
I also have an issue of the new master cylinder cover not fitting under the original style vacuum pump, the lock is wearing away each time i use the brakes. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated
thanks guys, lee
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PostSubject: Re: brake retrofit woes   Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:27 pm

Lee-
Did you install a '57-8 Power brake hanging pedal assembly? To my knowledge, you will need that for the proper fulcrum to the booster.

---John

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PostSubject: Re: brake retrofit woes   Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:09 pm

Hey John, the brake pedal set up was changed, vacuum pressure is whats getting me and how it has more vacuum with slight acceleration of rpms while braking in neutral instead of drive.
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PostSubject: Re: brake retrofit woes   Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:35 pm

Lee,
You mentioned you changed the hoses to a softer type, the hose should be good and firm or it could collapse from the vacuum. Could you put the old hoses back on and see if it makes a difference? At idle, you will have the highest manifold vacuum, off idle the vacuum reading should drop some. Maybe the hose is collapsing under high vacuum, and releasing some once the vacuum drops?

---John

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PostSubject: Re: brake retrofit woes   Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:04 pm

The vacuum hoses are normaly a special material, there is a steel wire in it, if you use normal hoses they will be collapse under high vacuum, exact what John say.
or the cacuum tank have a small rust hole.
If the system have a leak, the rpm get a little bit higher if you push the brake pedal.

This is the right hose for Vaccum systemes and brake Buster, there is a steel wire in the rubber under the coat

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PostSubject: Re: brake retrofit woes   Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:12 am

Thanks guys, im going to put the old hoses back on today and see what happens.
Im still wondering what can be done with my new master cylinder cover not exactly fitting under the pump...
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PostSubject: Re: brake retrofit woes   Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:30 pm

if his cover isnt fitting right over the master cylinder, wouldnt it be sucking air every time he pressing the pedel?

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PostSubject: Re: brake retrofit woes   Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:24 pm

the cover is on but the vacuum pump over head tilts downward onto the cover, pushing down on the rod that locks the over in place. ill get a photo up soon
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