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 Green Christine's Steering Column/Box

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PostSubject: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:19 am

1958 Plymouth Belvedere: I need to fix the leak in my steering box. Before I just start unscrewing/unbolting...does anyone have any first hand experience/advice for me? The leak is visible from the top...at the adjustment screw. I'm also hoping that's the only place it's leaking...can't see underneath to determine if there's an additional leak...the leak eventually drips off the car's frame directly below.


Thanks, Bob


Update: Used "Seal Lube" to fix these leaks. I was amazed at how well it worked.

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:58 pm




Here's the steering column/box that's in Green Christine. Anybody recognize it? This is what my old mopar mechanic friend looked at and said "you'll never get a big block in there with that steering column/box."

I still have no power steering when engine is at idle. When I rev engine just a little bit, the power steering works fine. Doesn't work out too well when trying to park or turning a corner. Laughing

It would make sense to me that this column/box came out of a 57 Plymouth...since there's a 57 Plymouth hood on the car and also some 57 aluminum trim on the dashboard, but who knows? Don't mind the yellow insulation I have stuffed around the column at firewall junction. That's a temporary fix to keep fumes out of the cabin.

Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:55 pm

Odd about having no power steering at idle. Hopefully it's not trying to tell you that it's trying to go kaput.
Isn't it even harder to steer when the power steering goes out? Even more difficult than manual steering?
I'm no expert on power steering or their issues by any means. All of the old cars around here have all manual stuff; manual steering, manual brakes, etc.
All except for the '94 Chevy pickup, it has power stuff. Good that it does too; that thing would be a nightmare trying to drive if it had manual steering since it's 23 feet long! 
Good idea about the yellow insulation to keep the exhaust fumes out of the inside of the car. You definitely don't want to die choking on exhaust fumes...
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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:14 am

Well, I found this pic but it's hard to tell.

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:51 am

Found a old training filmstrip that shows the '58 constant control system, the box is different then what you have Bob so you could very well have a '57 unit,

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:32 am

Here is a filmstrip showing the '57 power steering setup, look at 16:07.

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:25 am

Based on my research during the conversion on my car, looks like a 57 unit to me. Could the issue of no assist at idle be from a wrong pump?

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:51 am

goat19642004 wrote:
Based on my research during the conversion on my car, looks like a 57 unit to me. Could the issue of no assist at idle be from a wrong pump?

Thank you John...that's exactly what I'm thinking. Chris and or Brian have previously mentioned this too.

From what I have seen in my 58 Plymouth manual, the power steering pump in the car now looks to be original...so the guy that did the motor swap apparently transferred it over to this 64 block.

Is there a pressure difference between the 57 and 58 power steering pumps? I wouldn't think so...BUT ma mopar apparently changed the steering columns...so I suppose its possible.

Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:26 pm

Funny your tackling this now Bob. I'm on to my box now as well. I have an extra seal kit I've been saving for you. Keep in mind I have a 58 power steering box so hopefully the kit will cover both years. Looks like there's enough in the kit for 2 rebuilds! Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:00 pm

Bloodhound1958 wrote:
Funny your tackling this now Bob. I'm on to my box now as well. I have an extra seal kit I've been saving for you. Keep in mind I have a 58 power steering box so hopefully the kit will cover both years. Looks like there's enough in the kit for 2 rebuilds! Smile

Thanks for your generous offer Wayne. I'm not tackling it right now...just trying to learn more about my car and it's non-stock components. When the parts aren't replaced with original...it really throws a wrench into the next time it needs service.

Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:38 pm

My '58 p/s unit was leaking at the sector shaft lock-nut. I carefully took off the lock-nut being careful not to upset the adjustment. I then cleaned off all the oil with brake clean and used plumbers Teflon paste on the threads and bottom of the nut then tightened it down and let is set overnight. Lo and behold, no more leak.
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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:08 pm

eva_392 wrote:
My '58 p/s unit was leaking at the sector shaft lock-nut.  I carefully took off the lock-nut being careful not to upset the adjustment.  I then cleaned off all the oil with brake clean  and used plumbers Teflon paste on the threads and bottom of the nut then tightened it down and let is set overnight.  Lo and behold, no more leak.  

Really...That's really good to know Ron. I would have thought you'd at least have to empty the system of PS fluid first so the PS fluid wouldn't dilute the Teflon paste. PS fluid must not be a solvent of the Paste. I added a bottle of Seal Lube to my PS pump. It worked right away and is still not leaking.

Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:44 pm

Thanks for posting those old Service tech videos guys...They're excellent! I either have an internal leak in my pump or the 57 steering box in my car requires more pressure than what the pump on my car is delivering (at idle). Perhaps I'll start another thread that compares 57 and 58 PS pump pulley size. The pump looks the same for 57 and 58...but perhaps Mopar changed pulleys for 58? If so perhaps I need to find a 57 pump pulley for my 57 box. (for now) Hmmm. They sure did re-engineer the boxes for 58 so maybe they operate on lower pressure?

Thanks again Brian and Chris...Should this thread be a "sticky" in this Steering and Suspension section? Great Stuff!

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:54 pm

Those are great service videos Bob. After watching them it does sound like your power steering pump isn't putting out enough pressure at idol. It sounds like once the pressure falls bellow 800psi it will not produce enough to give you power steering. The good thing is though once you get your rpms up a bit you have power steering. Which must mean your pressure is over the minimum required to give you powered steering. Here's the thing now.. If the current pulley on your pump is wrong this could be the problem. Also if the pulley on the crank is the wrong size that could be your problem as well. The main thing here is you want the main crank pulley bigger and the power steering pump pulley smaller. This combo will turn your power steering pump faster.  Because of your car not having the factory motor I would measure your crank pulley. And of course measure your power steering pulley and compare them to what a factor set up would of had.. This will tell you at least if the problem is from under driving the pump. This can be done easily by just taking a tape measure and measure both pulleys across the face of them. I would almost think you could compare them with your Desoto for a comparison. I would give that a try Bob. This could be an easy fix for you. Smile


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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:47 am

Bob,

Sounds like the pump output pressure may be too low, or too large of a pulley was installed on the pump. With a pressure gauge you should be able to test pump output pressure, and see if compares to specs in the FSM.

---John

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:22 pm

Big M wrote:
Bob,

Sounds like the pump output pressure may be too low, or too large of a pulley was installed on the pump. With a pressure gauge you should be able to test pump output pressure, and see if compares to specs in the FSM.

---John

Thanks John...don't own a pressure gauge to measure this. Anyone know what type of pressure gauge is needed to measure PS output? I guess I should look into the manual to get an idea of what's used.

Thanks, Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:42 am

The pressure is regulated usually by a number of shim(s) under the output nut on the pump. Is it a Saginaw pump or federal or? May just need cleaning/shim adjusting in that area. Marc.

http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/power-steering-pressure-test.html

http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/2013/powersteeringmods/

This but opposite:
http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/beep/PUMP_IT_DOWN-re-v1.4.pdf

http://www.bigblockdart.com/techpages/pspumps.shtml

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/archive/index.php/t-6459.html


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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:57 pm

Marc...You're going to get me going on fixing this problem! Lots of good reading you have provided for me. Thanks! Right after I got the car, I did some digging as having no PS at idle was really bugging me. I identified my pump talked to a few experts from rebuild shops but none told me what's in these links. I think I have a Federal pump. Can't believe I've forgotten already. Rolling Eyes It's only been several months. I'll let you know what I find.

Thank you for helping me...I really appreciate it Marc,

Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:42 pm

No prob, Bob! the pressure gauge will be the toughest I think. Maybe craigs list or a pawn shop may have one. If you can cobble fittings, you will be able to put one together fairly cheaply.

https://www.directmaterial.com/2-1-2-liquid-filled-pressure-gauges-1-4-npt-center-back-mount.html?gdftrk=gdfV26558_a_7c120_a_7c3251_a_7cPB254B_d_K015&gclid=CKDK96jMvsoCFQ8zaQodGeEE1A

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:13 pm

Wayne...I need a thumbs up Emoticon.

Thanks again Marc. You are amazing.

Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:00 pm

Mopar had 2 different p/s boxes for that era. The earlier one was aluminum and the later was cast iron. I do not think the seals are interchangeable. If you need more info let me know and I will see what I can find in Hollander's Interchange I have.
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PostSubject: Re: Green Christine's Steering Column/Box   Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:27 pm

Yes two different boxes:

Power Steering: "Coaxial", Components encased in tubular housing which is located at bottom of, and concentrically around axis of steering column. See "Coaxial" Power Steering in Steering Section. •-LATE 1957 PLYMOUTH POWER STEERING GEAR PRODUCTION CHANGE: "Constant-Control" type power steering units replaced the "Coaxial" units formerly used. See "Constant Control Power Steering" in Steering Section. Steering Linkage: See "Steering Linkage" in Steering Section. Steering Wheel & Horn Button Removal: See "Gemmer Worm & Roller" in Steering Section. Steering Gear Removal: See "Gemmer Worm & Roller" in. Steering Section.

http://restorecarsclassifieds.com/wiki/show_pdf.pdf?n=12021

late57/58:

http://www.imperialclub.com/~imperialclub/Repair/Lit/Master/120/index.htm

http://restorecarsclassifieds.com/wiki/show_pdf.pdf?n=15135

A brand new, redesigned manual transmission was also launched, starting on February 22, 1958; it used different ratios and internal components, with shorter shifter travel and a better feel. Power steering, where available, used a new, smaller unit which could be adjusted while in the car.
read:http://www.allpar.com/history/chrysler-years/1958.html

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 12:33 PM

Roger, We do inspect the worm and ball nut to make sure they're within OEM specifications. If there is too much wear we do have a machine shop here, so we can build up and machine parts to within OEM specification. If they're beyond repair, odds are we will have extra parts here for it. That extra work is beyond our standard rebuild, so there may be extra costs for shop time, parts, ect. Long story short, we can repair almost any issue we run into.

You will not feel any play in our steering gears in the center position. When you turn the input, the output will turn at the same time. Off of center all steering gears have some play. They're designed that way to help the vehicle correct from a turn. The only steering gears this doesn't apply to are the Chrysler power steering gears with a spring loaded control valve. They are designed to have play until there is hydraulic pressure at the control valve. We hydraulically test every power gear we build to ensure that the adjustment is correct, the control valve is operating correctly, and no leaks

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/245782-steering-gear-box-diy-rebuild/

Marc.



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