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  440 died last Fall

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Carjunky
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PostSubject: 440 died last Fall   Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:59 am

My motor started right up like a new car last fall and was the first real reward for all the hard work. I only started it four times and only let it run for a couple minutes but last time I tried, it killed the new heavy duty battery. Recharged it but no luck. Starter is rebuilt and sounds strong. YES she has gas in her. Laughing I ask this on the old forum but it died before I could see any help offered to me. Spring is coming and I would like to get hold of any new parts and information before hand. Thanks in advance for any help. Smile

Before shot.

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After

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The yapping sound is my dogs barking at the sound of the motor.




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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:50 am

If the motor turns over, check for fuel, and check for spark. If you have both, you should at least get a pop from somewhere. Most of the time issues like this are ignition related.

If you have fuel (just look down the carb and pump the linkage it a few times - you should see fuel squirting into the bores from the accelerator pump), then check for spark. No fuel, you need to check your fuel system.

Pull off a spark plug wire and stick the end of a plastic handled screwdriver into the clip inside the sparkplug boot. Then just hold the screwdriver about a quarter inch above some bare metal on the motor, like the exhaust manifolds. Get someone to try to start the motor - you should see a spark jumping the gap. No spark - ignition related issue.
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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:54 am

Chrissy,

Was the battery left connected? Best to keep disconnected while the car is being worked on. Probably just not enough juice in the goose if it's run down. Remove it from the car and put it on a slow trickle charger. If she comes back up give it another shot. Make sure you have spark and fuel and we can help you troubleshoot from there. If she fires up let her run for a good while. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:04 am

Good advice from both Rick and Wayne, No since to add anything else at this time. Would just confuse you. Like Rick says if you have Fire and Gas it shout make some kind of noise. If you are trying to start without an air cleaner make sure you have a rag or something close to put on top and smother the fire out. Make sure it is not gas soaked. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:52 am

Ya beat me to it Bob. I was going to say be careful of checking for spark with the air cleaner off.

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:31 am

Great advice indeed guys .Christina your engine looks and sounds sweet!
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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:49 am

Arnie1964 wrote:
Ya beat me to it Bob. I was going to say be careful of checking for spark with the air cleaner off.
Smile Hee! Hee! Marines arn't always first Hee! Hee!

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:09 pm

I'd also smell the fuel that you are using, as these new fuel formulations can turn to varnish in just a few short months.

If it smells funny, be on the safe side and change it out.

---John

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:03 am

THANKS GUYS!! You gave me a lot of possibility's and gave it to me fast. If the sun warms the garage some today maybe I will see what happens.
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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:41 am

Smile :flower:

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:54 pm

Something I failed to mention, that is very important to check, especially if it is cold where the car is kept-

With the air cleaner lid off, lightly depress the gas pedal. Now, go back out to the engine bay, and look at the choke butterfly in the carburetor. It should be completely closed.

If not, there is a misadjustment, or linkage binding that will need to be corrected. Cold temps require an overly rich fuel mixture for the engine to fire up, which is what the closed choke does.

---John

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:54 pm

I beleive it was warm weather when she was cranking it up John Smile That reminds me my generator in the motorhome croacked on me at the Halloween classic last year. I beleive I have a fuel line problem, I took the fuel pump off and run a hose down in a bottle and it pumped real great. Some times it would run for 3 or 4 minutes and never miss a beat then it would cut out. I am going to put a rubber line on it and drop it in a gas can and see if it will run ok that way. Very Important that the generator works or I do not have any TV to watch at nght. I sure do rough it out there LOL. Smile

My friend Jim let me plug into his motorhome, I had to do the same for him last year. But he turns in earlier then I do and he wld shut the gen off about 1/2 through my movie. lol!

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:27 am

lol - can't have you roughing it now, can we!
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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:03 am

Big M wrote:
Something I failed to mention, that is very important to check, especially if it is cold where the car is kept-

With the air cleaner lid off, lightly depress the gas pedal. Now, go back out to the engine bay, and look at the choke butterfly in the carburetor. It should be completely closed.

If not, there is a misadjustment, or linkage binding that will need to be corrected. Cold temps require an overly rich fuel mixture for the engine to fire up, which is what the closed choke does.

---John


John I don't even have the floor finessed in the pedal area. Embarassed I am starting it from the battery with wires. Thinking of a cable gas pedal but would like to get past this part first. Gas was fresh, new wires, plugs filters and it started perfect the first few times. It has a glass gas filter to see the gas coming up. I need to wait for a little warmer day to go out and play with it. Fingers get cold. Very Happy
I was kinda down after loosing the forum and friends but with all the help and support I'm getting...I think I may be ready to go back to work on her. Just needed the break I guess. Thanks Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:59 am

You can check for it without the gas pedal Chrissy. I don't think John realized you were not hooked up. Take the air cleaner off. When you lighty move the throttle on the carb a plate should be closed or it should close when it is cold.










See the plate that looks like brass at the top of one side of the carb? When it is cold that plate should close over the air intake on that side of the carb.

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:54 am

Christine, I recommend checking for fire WHILE CRANKING. I you are running Points, this can be a problem if you used the incorrect coil. (IE: One for points should say "Non resistor type", one for electronic which uses straight 12 volts should say "Resistor type")...

Check for fire by pullingthe coil wire about 1/4 inch from cap and have you so crank engine or have him chck the fire and you crank. You should see sparks. if not, you have ignition prolems..Ah, the joys of old car ownership...
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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:07 pm

Dukeboy wrote:
Christine, I recommend checking for fire WHILE CRANKING. I you are running Points, this can be a problem if you used the incorrect coil. (IE: One for points should say "Non resistor type", one for electronic which uses straight 12 volts should say "Resistor type")...

Check for fire by pullingthe coil wire about 1/4 inch from cap and have you so crank engine or have him chck the fire and you crank. You should see sparks. if not, you have ignition prolems..Ah, the joys of old car ownership...
Yea and Crisy you hold the wire in your hand make sure that it is bare where you are touching it. If I shock the you know what out of you it is getting fire, lol! Hee! Hee! No don't do that Crisy, Just kidding. Man I hate to get shocked when Im not expecting it. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:36 pm

RacerRick wrote:
lol - can't have you roughing it now, can we!
lol!

Rick I have roughed it for a long time at the track, Back in the early 70's I towed my 65 GTO racecar out to the track with my 57 Pontiac Ambulance. If I had to spend the night or a couple of days I stayed in it.

Other then that I camped out in a small tent, When first started the Halloween clasics i would stay in a small tent in October, with out any heat of any kind. Then I got one of those propane heaters and turned it on and let the tent warmup untill I got my clothes on.

When I retired in 2004, I bought me a fishing boat and a good motorhome, It was almost 20 years old but was well kept and only had 40.000 miles on it.

It is not one of those big fancy ones like a lot of the racers take out, but it is good enough for me and keeps me warm and my beer cold. Hee! Hee!

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:54 am

fins318 wrote:
Great advice indeed guys .Christina your engine looks and sounds sweet!

Thanks Carlos. I think I love this engine more then the car. Photobucket

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:06 am

58plym wrote:
Dukeboy wrote:
Christine, I recommend checking for fire WHILE CRANKING. I you are running Points, this can be a problem if you used the incorrect coil. (IE: One for points should say "Non resistor type", one for electronic which uses straight 12 volts should say "Resistor type")...

Check for fire by pullingthe coil wire about 1/4 inch from cap and have you so crank engine or have him chck the fire and you crank. You should see sparks. if not, you have ignition prolems..Ah, the joys of old car ownership...
Yea and Crisy you hold the wire in your hand make sure that it is bare where you are touching it. If I shock the you know what out of you it is getting fire, lol! Hee! Hee! No don't do that Crisy, Just kidding. Man I hate to get shocked when Im not expecting it. Smile


Photobucket
Got a charge out of that one Bobby. Whats next???? maybe light a match and see if I have gas???
Hee! Hee!

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:39 am

Dukeboy wrote:
Christine, I recommend checking for fire WHILE CRANKING. I you are running Points, this can be a problem if you used the incorrect coil. (IE: One for points should say "Non resistor type", one for electronic which uses straight 12 volts should say "Resistor type")...

Check for fire by pullingthe coil wire about 1/4 inch from cap and have you so crank engine or have him chck the fire and you crank. You should see sparks. if not, you have ignition prolems..Ah, the joys of old car ownership...


Thanks Chaney. Sure are a lot of things that could have gone wrong. Sad I'm looking forward to trying some of the advice out but it is still very cold here. I did shovel the snow away from the door and visit her yesterday. Very Happy So great to have my helpers back.

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:47 am

Arnie1964 wrote:
You can check for it without the gas pedal Chrissy. I don't think John realized you were not hooked up. Take the air cleaner off. When you lighty move the throttle on the carb a plate should be closed or it should close when it is cold.










See the plate that looks like brass at the top of one side of the carb? When it is cold that plate should close over the air intake on that side of the carb.



Jim. You figured out I don't know bean's about what I am doing. Laughing Thanks for the clear pic and explanation. It's a good engine or I would have never got it going the first time. Smile


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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:00 am

Bloodhound1958 wrote:
Chrissy,

Was the battery left connected? Best to keep disconnected while the car is being worked on. Probably just not enough juice in the goose if it's run down. Remove it from the car and put it on a slow trickle charger. If she comes back up give it another shot. Make sure you have spark and fuel and we can help you troubleshoot from there. If she fires up let her run for a good while. Smile



No it don't seem to be the battery. I kept trying when I should have given up. That is what killed it.
I am going to print all the helpful advice on this thread for future references. I have a feeling even if I fix it this time ...it could happen again. Every one jumping in to try and help reminds me this is still a great club with great members. Thanks Wayne wayne.

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:19 am

RacerRick wrote:
If the motor turns over, check for fuel, and check for spark. If you have both, you should at least get a pop from somewhere. Most of the time issues like this are ignition related.

If you have fuel (just look down the carb and pump the linkage it a few times - you should see fuel squirting into the bores from the accelerator pump), then check for spark. No fuel, you need to check your fuel system.

Pull off a spark plug wire and stick the end of a plastic handled screwdriver into the clip inside the sparkplug boot. Then just hold the screwdriver about a quarter inch above some bare metal on the motor, like the exhaust manifolds. Get someone to try to start the motor - you should see a spark jumping the gap. No spark - ignition related issue.

Thanks Rick. I was so upset after all the months of work on it, I could only think to check and see if the wires were all tight and add some dry gas to the fuel. The gas is fresh. I drained the old stuff out and used it in my lawn tractor when the original motor was pulled out. Smile I think she will come back to life this spring and I can move on to the body work.

You know thinking about the gas it should have flooded with me trying so long to start it. It didn't do that.Photobucket

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:44 am

Crisy, I don't know if anything was said about priming the carb, Like pouring a little gas down the top of the carb, If it has a fuel problem it shoud fire or back fire or something. Just make sure you put your air cleaner back on or have a rag to to smother the fire out in the carb if it back fires . Im sure you have probly already done this but just in case. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:06 am

Still freezing out in my area. This is my back yard yesterday. Pretty but I need summer back.

Photobucket

I couldn't stand not knowing whats wrong with my car so I braved the cold and turned on the salamander for while.
Any way I got lots of spark all over. .....I didn't have enough hands so I taped the starter wire to my foot. I had ruled out the gas because I can see some moving in the visual gas filter but it isn't getting to the carb. I disconnected one line and got gas all over so the lines are good. The line from the filter to the carb it free also.

PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

Oh the flap is working and closed also. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:30 am

58plym wrote:
Crisy, I don't know if anything was said about priming the carb, Like pouring a little gas down the top of the carb, If it has a fuel problem it shoud fire or back fire or something. Just make sure you put your air cleaner back on or have a rag to to smother the fire out in the carb if it back fires . Im sure you have probly already done this but just in case. Smile




Bob I gave this another shot using more gas and it started. bounce Soon as it ran out of gas it quit. Sad I did it three times but won't keep going. Evil or Very Mad Boy that was nice to hear her again. I hope this will rule out some things and help get her fixed:D

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:08 am

She is starving for fuel Chrissy. One of two things. Either you don't have enough fuel getting to the engine because of fuel restriction or it is just plain cold and the mixture she is getting is too lean to keep her going. Back in the olden days Hee! Hee! when it was real cold we used to have to start a car quite a few times and keep pumping the gas until she got a little warmed up. Was you choke plate closed when she fired up? It should have been blocking the air from entering the carb which makes the mixture more rich. (more gas less air) I used to do this by putting my hand over the carb with the air cleaner off until it warmed up a little. Every thing you do around that carb can be a danger for fire so be very careful.

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:49 am

Crisy, good news, now you said you got gas with the line going into the carb, I don't know if your carb has a filter in the carb where the line goes in or not. It could be plugged or your internal floats could be suuck closed and no gas will get into the carb. But being very cold in your area could be a great factor like Jim Said.

Whatever the problem is Im sure it is nothing to worry about so I would wait till warmer weather to work on it again. I don't see how you do it. Man I hate the cold weather.

I would put my head to ease and take a well deserved rest and not worry about it for a while. I know that would probly be hard for you to do. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: 440 died last Fall   Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:42 pm

Its a carb problem.

Can you look straight down the carb with the choke flap open? If so, grab the linkage and open the carb to full throttle. You should see fuel squirting from two little nozzles in the center of the front throttles bores. This is the accelerator pump squirters. If you are getting fuel into the carburator, these will squirt fuel.


If no fuel squirts out of the accelerator pump:

You have already checked the lines. Have you disconnected the fuel line at the carb and turned over the motor? Put the line in a little bottle or something. Fuel should squirt out of the line pretty good. That will mean your fuel pump is ok, and your filter is not plugged.

If fuel is making it to the carb, but not in, then you have either a stuck needle and seat, or a sunk or stuck float.

If fuel does squirt out - hook everything back up, and pump the gas 5-10 times and try to start it. If it starts, and then dies, its just lean. In your pics you have a thermoquad. They are good carbs if you have a good one - a bad one will be no end of trouble.
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